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#98049 - 05/16/08 07:30 AM
Reclaiming Conservatism
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Doug Jones
Member
Registered: 04/29/00
Posts: 1380
Loc: Indian Lake, NY
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Mickey Edwards article.
Desperate to find a way to win, Republicans are in danger of doing precisely the opposite of what they should be doing. They are being advised to tie themselves to the fortunes of John McCain.
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#98058 - 05/16/08 09:41 AM
Re: Reclaiming Conservatism
[Re: Doug Jones]
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Piglet
Member
Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 770
Loc: Cromwell, CT
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I like this part especially:
"What should congressional Republicans do if they are to have any chance of winning even a sizable minority in November? First, they should emulate at least one element of their old "Contract With America". That is, they should all gather together one last time on the Capitol steps. And they should apologize, collectively, to the American people for their behavior both as a majority and as a minority, guilty beyond doubt of nonfeasance (not doing their duty). And then they should go home to their constituents, plead for forgiveness, and promise that if they are returned to Washington they will remember to take the oath of office seriously: to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, so help me God. If they cannot do that, they will lose and they will deserve to lose."
I don't think that they really get what's going on at the grassroots level. That we as Americans want our public officials to return to the art of governing for us. We are tired of the "business" of government. Politics is not and should not be a business. I feel that the conservative party has sold out our govt and the people by turning the political process and government into a business. It's corrupted.
_________________________
Unapologetically me.
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#98066 - 05/16/08 10:32 AM
Re: Reclaiming Conservatism
[Re: Piglet]
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bobbcat
Member
Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 6375
Loc: My office.
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Piglet, what makes you think that what the Pubs have been doing is all that different from the modus operandi of the Dems? Politics has been a 'business' now for quite some time, as most on Capitol Hill approach their offices like careers, which was never a part of the vision of the FF as to how to run our federal gov't. Term limits for all would be a good first step towards solving many of the problems associated with the 'business' of gov't.
_________________________
Bottom line, it's either M-TEC or Andrews.
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#98068 - 05/16/08 11:14 AM
Re: Reclaiming Conservatism
[Re: bobbcat]
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Piglet
Member
Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 770
Loc: Cromwell, CT
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Well Bobbcat, outside of the Clinton administration, for the most part democrats have been at least trying to get back to the basics, and it seems like when they do, they get the full press smear campaign.
I have seen no evidence whatsoever that the republican party is doing anything at all but furthering the agenda of political business. Those republicans who try to buck the current system are being eliminated by their own party for not pushing the agenda. I assert that the republican party has been the dominant one of tying business to govt. How else can you explain Bush's administration selling off the military to private industry? How else can you explain John McCain?
My solution would be no more lobbying. I think without lobbying, there would be a lot less people who make politics a career.
_________________________
Unapologetically me.
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#98070 - 05/16/08 11:43 AM
Re: Reclaiming Conservatism
[Re: Piglet]
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bobbcat
Member
Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 6375
Loc: My office.
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My solution would be no more lobbying.
_________________________
Bottom line, it's either M-TEC or Andrews.
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#98082 - 05/16/08 01:13 PM
Re: Reclaiming Conservatism
[Re: bobbcat]
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bobbcat
Member
Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 6375
Loc: My office.
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This is in response to a deleted post (PM feature only works for me when I reply to a PM; I cannot initiate one for whatever reason). Still gonna post this response because of the time and effort I took to type it.
I am more inclined to think that the whole system is too closely tied to big money. This is the major reason a 3rd party cannot get a foothold on the arena of ideas; no big-money outlets are willing to fork over the necessary funding for a 3rd party to get off the ground. Gov't has wandered so far from the ideal envisioned by the FF (go to Washington to serve the American people for a time and then return home and allow fresh blood to take your place), it's not funny. Now, it's all about running around in someone's back pocket in exchange for reelection into office time and time again. I'd really like to see just how much term limits for members of Congress would affect things in a positive way. Perhaps there would be less incentive to see all about reelection and more incentive to do what is right: Serve the interests of the American people.
_________________________
Bottom line, it's either M-TEC or Andrews.
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#98083 - 05/16/08 01:15 PM
Re: Reclaiming Conservatism
[Re: bobbcat]
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Kimmbberr
Member
Registered: 10/04/99
Posts: 1843
Loc: Corvallis, Oregon
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I'm sorry bobbcat, I was worried I might have offended folks.
I asked whether she thought the republican party suffered from it association with the Fundamentalists as I feel sometimes the democratic party suffers from the extreme left wing ideation.
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Kimi
What Washington needs is adult supervision. Obama, 2006
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#98084 - 05/16/08 01:21 PM
Re: Reclaiming Conservatism
[Re: bobbcat]
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ahvasquez
Member
Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 405
Loc: Texas
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I am more inclined to think that the whole system is too closely tied to big money. This is the major reason a 3rd party cannot get a foothold on the arena of ideas; no big-money outlets are willing to fork over the necessary funding for a 3rd party to get off the ground. Gov't has wandered so far from the ideal envisioned by the FF (go to Washington to serve the American people for a time and then return home and allow fresh blood to take your place), it's not funny. Now, it's all about running around in someone's back pocket in exchange for reelection into office time and time again. I'd really like to see just how much term limits for members of Congress would affect things in a positive way. Perhaps there would be less incentive to see all about reelection and more incentive to do what is right: Serve the interests of the American people.
It's funny how we can start with pretty much opposing political views and arrive at the same conclusion! I'm with you 100% on this one, bobbcat. 
_________________________
Anne
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#98085 - 05/16/08 01:23 PM
Re: Reclaiming Conservatism
[Re: bobbcat]
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Piglet
Member
Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 770
Loc: Cromwell, CT
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I am more inclined to think that the whole system is too closely tied to big money.
Perhaps there would be less incentive to see all about reelection and more incentive to do what is right: Serve the interests of the American people.
This is pretty much right it line with my thinking as well. I think term limits is a good idea on one end, but not on another. It takes time to build affiliations and a base of support, and if the term limits are too short, electeds would have trouble effecting any real change because by the time they can, they would be forced to leave office.
I don't agree with you on the previous lobbying statement though. Lobbyists currently in Washington are not lobbying for anyone's benefit except their own business and/or agenda. I think very little lobbying that goes on in Washington has anything at all to do with furtherance of our democracy, only the furtherance of business and de-regulation and of special favorances. Which is why so many electeds who leave Washington are instantly snatched up by big business to lobby for them and/or actually solicited before they even leave office.
This whole corporatist mentality is rotten and flawed and should be denounced wholeheartedly by Washington officials.
_________________________
Unapologetically me.
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#98089 - 05/16/08 01:42 PM
Re: Reclaiming Conservatism
[Re: bobbcat]
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14tonks
Member
Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 6298
Loc: Only 3rd world country in US
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Without lobbying though, many interests of those out there in the hinterlands would never see the light of day within the hallowed halls of Congress. IOW, without the lobbyisIts and the PACs, we would not have much of a voice.
I have several thoughts on this. First, we are supposed to have majority rule, so if your opinions are those of a teeny, tiny splinter minority, how much influence should your "interests" exercise over the rest of us? As much as you can buy courtesy of a couple of wealthy people who agree with you, or proportional to your numbers?
As far as being able to get your voice/opinion/message heard goes, it no longer matters whether you live in central downtown Gotham or 300 miles past the end of the dirt trail out of West Lostandgone. There is this wunnerful thing called the internet these days that allows you to find like minds and get the word out. If your argument is truly convincing, your supporters should grow, and with that growth in the number of people who agree with you, your political influence should grow. What that doesn't do, of course, is allow you to line the pockets of elected representatives to convince them to push your agenda rather than that of the majority of their district constituents.
Which is the long way around of saying I see no downside at all to banning lobbying and lobbyists or to banning PACs and/or any other way of circumventing the law to give us rule by the money rather than rule by the people.
I'd also like to see political contributions limited to something like $50 per individual with no exceptions, no other source of funding, and politicians forbidden to spend any money other than what they can raise from such contributions on their political campaigns ever, not their own personal money, not that bundled through any PAC, group, or corporate "entity". You can bug us with as much advertising as you can convince us, individually, to buy for you with small personal contributions. You can have as much staff as such contributions will pay for or you can assemble through unpaid volunteers. End of bought politicians, bought elections, and massive, outrageously expensive campaigns. With that kind of financial restriction, maybe politicians would even go back to spending their limited money on getting actual position papers and discussions of real issues out there instead of TV ad spin.
Edited by 14tonks (05/16/08 01:50 PM)
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#98093 - 05/16/08 02:18 PM
Re: Reclaiming Conservatism
[Re: 14tonks]
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Kimmbberr
Member
Registered: 10/04/99
Posts: 1843
Loc: Corvallis, Oregon
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Oooo Tonks, you radical you. Great ideas.
_________________________
Kimi
What Washington needs is adult supervision. Obama, 2006
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#98098 - 05/16/08 02:28 PM
Re: Reclaiming Conservatism
[Re: Kimmbberr]
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Piglet
Member
Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 770
Loc: Cromwell, CT
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I'm sorry bobbcat, I was worried I might have offended folks.
I asked whether she thought the republican party suffered from it association with the Fundamentalists as I feel sometimes the democratic party suffers from the extreme left wing ideation.
Hey Kimmberr ~ not sure who exactly this query was directed at, but I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.
I do feel that the republican party suffers from its association with fundamentalists.
People in general do not like conflict and will most generally chose the path of least resistance. I always believe that there is a middle ground of conciliation which is where great things happen. I am not convinced that radicalism effects much sustainable change.
It is my theory that in the political spectrum, the far left and the far right only serves the purpose of defining the middle.
_________________________
Unapologetically me.
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