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#98005 - 05/15/08 03:33 PM
Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
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bobbcat
Member
Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 6375
Loc: My office.
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Obama assumes he is the target in a well-worded and appropriate speech Bush made today before Israel's Knesset. Story here. Excerpt: In a speech to Israel's Knesset, Bush said: "Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along.
"We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided.' We have an obligation to call this what it is—the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history."
"It is sad that President Bush would use a speech to the Knesset on the 60th anniversary of Israel's independence to launch a false political attack," Obama said in the statement his aides distributed. "George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists, and the president's extraordinary politicization of foreign policy and the politics of fear do nothing to secure the American people or our stalwart ally Israel." It really takes a pretty big ego to jump to the conclusion Bush was talking about him. How egocentric can one get? Just more evidence that this man is not fit to be our POTUS, IMHO.
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Bottom line, it's either M-TEC or Andrews.
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#98010 - 05/15/08 04:32 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: bobbcat]
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ahvasquez
Member
Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 405
Loc: Texas
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It really takes a pretty big ego to jump to the conclusion Bush was talking about him. How egocentric can one get? Just more evidence that this man is not fit to be our POTUS, IMHO. So, who was Bush referring to, if not Obama? I'm afraid it sounded the same way to me when I originally heard it. I bet I'm not alone, either.
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Anne
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#98014 - 05/15/08 05:12 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: ahvasquez]
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Dabble
Member
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 274
Loc: Proudly in the USA
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I am more inclined to believe he was talking about Jimmy Carter. No matter, what President Bush said is 100% correct.
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Never explain yourself. Your friends don't need it and your enemies won't believe it.
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#98018 - 05/15/08 05:38 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: Dabble]
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Elgee
Member
Registered: 08/16/99
Posts: 2770
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And let's not forget Nancy Pelosi and her trip to Syria.
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And what manner of jackassery must we put up with today?
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#98022 - 05/15/08 06:00 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: bobbcat]
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Doug Jones
Member
Registered: 04/29/00
Posts: 1380
Loc: Indian Lake, NY
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Obama assumes he is the target in a well-worded and appropriate speech Bush made today before Israel's Knesset.
That's because he was.
The president did not name Obama or any other Democrat, but White House aides privately acknowledged the remarks were aimed at the presidential candidate and others in his party.
There are other reactions, too.
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#98024 - 05/15/08 06:14 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: Doug Jones]
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mtag
Member
Registered: 07/09/01
Posts: 1193
Loc: North AL
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The quote says it was aimed at Obama and others in his party That means Obama, Pelosi, and anybody else that espouses the same things they do.
Talk about a non-issue...
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Something I've learned: Any pan is a no-stick pan if you no cook in it.
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#98025 - 05/15/08 06:16 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: Doug Jones]
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Dabble
Member
Registered: 02/19/08
Posts: 274
Loc: Proudly in the USA
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I still don't see how the president is wrong about what he said. It's a big stretch to say he is comparing Obama to "Nazi appeasers." After all, he was making the speech in Israel. Non-issue indeed!
ETA, from FoxNews.
Independent Democratic Sen. Joe Lieberman, a McCain supporter, heralded the president’s remarks.
“President Bush got it exactly right today when he warned about the threat of Iran and its terrorist proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah. It is imperative that we reject the flawed and naïve thinking that denies or dismisses the words of extremists and terrorists when they shout ‘Death to America’ and ‘Death to Israel,’ and that holds that– if only we were to sit down and negotiate with these killers — they would cease to threaten us. It is critical to our national security that our commander-in-chief is able to distinguish between America’s friends and America’s enemies, and not confuse the two,” he said.
Edited by Dabble (05/15/08 06:23 PM)
_________________________
Never explain yourself. Your friends don't need it and your enemies won't believe it.
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#98027 - 05/15/08 07:17 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: Dabble]
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Doug Jones
Member
Registered: 04/29/00
Posts: 1380
Loc: Indian Lake, NY
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Gosh, then I guess when he gets back to Washington, he's going to fire Condi Rice and Robert Gates. Since, after all, they've also been advocating talking to Iran.
Swiftboating comes to Jerusalem.
Oh, and Biden calls the comments what they were.
Biden noted that Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice have both suggested that the United States ought to find a way to talk more with its enemies.
"If he thinks this is appeasement, is he going to come back and fire his own cabinet?” Biden asked. “Is he going to fire Condi Rice?”
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#98029 - 05/15/08 07:20 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: Doug Jones]
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George Heymont
Member
Registered: 05/04/99
Posts: 4961
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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How egocentric can one get? Just more evidence that this man is not fit to be our POTUS, IMHO.
I suppose y'all are going to be waiting for him to give up golf, too. 
Watch this!
Keith Olbermann discusses Bush's egomania
Edited by George Heymont (05/15/08 07:32 PM)
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George Heymont Alert & Oriented Medical Transcription Services
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#98032 - 05/15/08 08:16 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: Doug Jones]
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bobbcat
Member
Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 6375
Loc: My office.
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Oh, and Biden calls the comments what they were. That is what you think. I don't believe everyone shares that view. More commentary, alluding to the notion that there may be an ensuing battle between Bush, who is concerned about his legacy, and Obama, who is concerned about costing McCain political collateral by associating him with Bush as he, McCain, strives to distance himself from the very unpopular president.
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Bottom line, it's either M-TEC or Andrews.
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#98033 - 05/15/08 08:33 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: bobbcat]
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Doug Jones
Member
Registered: 04/29/00
Posts: 1380
Loc: Indian Lake, NY
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McCain, strives to distance himself from the very unpopular president. 
McCain agrees with Bush's remarks.
Doesn't look to me like he's distancing himself at all!
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#98034 - 05/15/08 08:54 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: Doug Jones]
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bobbcat
Member
Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 6375
Loc: My office.
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Doesn't look to me like he's distancing himself at all! Well gee wiz, LOL! You suppose that perhaps McCain agreed because the man is right? Perhaps you may like to explain to me just why the hell our pols should be diplomatic with people like Hitler or Hamas and others who want to obliterate Israel. Do you agree with them that Israel has no right to exist?
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Bottom line, it's either M-TEC or Andrews.
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#98035 - 05/15/08 09:05 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: bobbcat]
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tropsicleAfter
Member
Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 2441
Loc: Vicksburg, MS
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Here we are again, one of those strange moments that bobbcat and I agree on something. It is strange on several levels, not the least of which is that most recently she implied that I was a PTSD victim and therefore like crazy old grampa telling war stories. It is also strange in that I am so far from being a Pub it is beyond ridiculous.
What is not strange is that, of course, negotiating with enemies only works when the sword is at their throat. I wish one of the Obamaphites would explain to me what the difference is between his statement that he has never supported direct engagement with terrorists and his statements that he is all for talking to the leaders of countries that are the main support of terrorists. I mean, just how far do you have to parse those two stands to see that they are in direct opposition to each other?
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tropsicle
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#98037 - 05/15/08 09:22 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: bobbcat]
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MattsKat
Member
Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 2609
Loc: Here and Now...USA
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...Bush, who is concerned about his legacy
Too late! He shoulda thought about that before he left home. Bush's "legacy" couldn't possibly get more mucked up than it is right now. (Or could it? 'Scuse me if I'm speaking too soon and jinxing any potential for World Peace in my lifetime.)
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Those who can laugh at themselves shall never cease to be amused.
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#98038 - 05/15/08 10:20 PM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: tropsicleAfter]
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bobbcat
Member
Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 6375
Loc: My office.
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one of those strange moments that bobbcat and I agree on something. It is strange on several levels, not the least of which is that most recently she implied that I was a PTSD victim and therefore like crazy old grampa telling war stories. While you imply that I am that 'red-headed stepchild....' Too funny.
On a more serious note, I think it is important to keep a level-headed perspective with regard to what situations constitute the need for diplomacy versus those which do not. Some things are simply never negotiable, and it is imperative that we elect as often as possible those into offices of power who realize just which situations those are.
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Bottom line, it's either M-TEC or Andrews.
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#98048 - 05/16/08 07:24 AM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: bobbcat]
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Doug Jones
Member
Registered: 04/29/00
Posts: 1380
Loc: Indian Lake, NY
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Well, trops, consider that your candidate has blasted the statement as well.
As for McCain, he was for talking to Hamas before he was against it.
I'm also going to point out that this administration has had a habit for the past 7 years of making asinine statements like this, only to turn around and do the opposite. Remember the "we'll never negotiate with North Korea?" We did. How about Libya? Syria? Oh, well, that's different! Yeah, right.
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#98052 - 05/16/08 08:28 AM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: Doug Jones]
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tropsicleAfter
Member
Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 2441
Loc: Vicksburg, MS
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OK, Doug, I don't have a candidate. I might have been more for one previously, but looks like that one is out of the race, or so all of you tell me. 
Explaining the diametrically opposed statements of one person by saying that all these other people did and do it to is a false explanation, not to mention a condemnation of your candidate's whole "change" platform.
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tropsicle
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#98054 - 05/16/08 09:18 AM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: tropsicleAfter]
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Doug Jones
Member
Registered: 04/29/00
Posts: 1380
Loc: Indian Lake, NY
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I might have been more for one previously, but looks like that one is out of the race, or so all of you tell me.
Yeah, it sucks to be able to do the math.
I would also suggest that you read Obama's actual statements. I think it's interesting that he's being attacked for saying he'd do what the Republicans say they'd never do, then hypocritically turn around and do.
So your objection is that he has stated that he would have dialog with various countries or groups which are opposed to us. Instead, we should just ignore them, or maybe "obliterate" them? It hasn't been working so far, but hey, let's keep it up. Someday it might.
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#98057 - 05/16/08 09:35 AM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: Doug Jones]
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tropsicleAfter
Member
Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 2441
Loc: Vicksburg, MS
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No, Doug, this isn't about, again, what the others have been doing, or what some other might do instead.
I asked one of his supporters here to help the rest of us understand the seeming diconcordance between the statements he has made, his actual statements, that he has never supported engagement with terrorists, and that he would openly and without precondition engage in talks with the foreign leaders without whom the terrorists would cease to exist.
Instead, twice now, you have attempted to deflect the question and say that others are doing the same, as well as suggesting, sarcastically, that we ignore them (what other candidate has suggested that, pray tell?) or obliterate them (which is so far from what she said that it shows that maybe you need to read her actual statement).
So, you can't explain his contradictory statements. Maybe someone else in your camp can?
Yeah, it sucks to back a candidate that says such stupid things.
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tropsicle
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#98064 - 05/16/08 10:27 AM
Re: Obama Displays a Chip on His Shoulder
[Re: tropsicleAfter]
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Softail
Member
Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 477
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Food for thought...
"Terrorism is an anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-) clandestine individual, group or state actors, for idiosyncratic, criminal or political reasons, whereby - in contrast to assassination - the direct targets of violence are not the main targets. The immediate human victims of violence are generally chosen randomly (targets of opportunity) or selectively (representative or symbolic targets) from a target population, and serve as message generators. Threat- and violence-based communication processes between terrorist (organization), (imperiled) victims, and main targets are used to manipulate the main target (audience(s)), turning it into a target of terror, a target of demands, or a target of attention, depending on whether intimidation, coercion, or propaganda is primarily sought" (Schmid, 1988).
So, I suppose it depends on your opinion on who you think the terrorist is.
Hiroshima Terrorism
Obama's Foreign Policy Speech
"The world has achieved brilliance without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants." - General Omar Bradley
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The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits -- Albert Einstein
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