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#97661 - 05/11/08 12:13 AM
The Thought Police
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Agnostic
Member
Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 3078
Loc: Chennai, TN, India
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Legislation that will arm the government to "define thoughts and belief systems" may soon become operational.
Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007
Is George Orwell's 1984 "prophecy" coming true?
We have the "Moral Police" in India who, with hawk eyes, look at low necklines and high hemlines disapprovingly and call it un-Indian. What the US does today, India does tomorrow.
I would hate it if the thought police, if and when they are introduced in India, were to disapprove of my thoughts on Carmen Elektra.
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Harry
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A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going somewhere.
Groucho Marx
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#97670 - 05/11/08 10:23 AM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: Agnostic]
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RoseMT37
Member
Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 679
Loc: Texas
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This is not a world wide example, but just something small that happened here locally. My son went to Dillards to buy a shirt. The shirt he wanted, his size, the color etc. did not have a price tag on it. So he found the same shirt just different size and pulled the price tag off of it and headed to the register to pay. The cop/security guy grabbed him and called me to come get him for shoplifting. He tells me I can come get him from the store. So I run like crazy to get there, hear the whole story and they tell me they are taking him to juvie. I was freaking out, this is my one kid that never gets in trouble. So he was arrested and taken to juvie and the only thing the cop would tell me was that it was because they "thought" he "wanted" to steal the shirt. The cop proceeded to tell my son that just because he could not afford clothes there didnt give him the right to steal. He assessed this lack of money because my son had on holey jeans and a t-shirt (both coming from Hollister and not cheap, ya know the 80 dollar holey jeans, and no I dont buy them, they buy them theirselves). So they take him, I follow. We get to juvie and after a few hours of them talking to me, my other son and then going back to my criminal son they let him go because they see there was no intent there. They were in shock and simply amazed that they could not find him in the system. I said well could it be possibly because he has never been in trouble? Anyways, they let him go and told me then and there that they can arrest someone if they "think" they are going to commit a crime. Sounds like total BS to me and I was livid! Thankfully they let him go with nothing on his record, but I hated that he had to go through that, all the way down to a humiliating strip search at juvie. I have never been so mad in all my life...that was so unfair. So beware...if some cop sees you and thinks you might be going to commit a crime you will be arrested and treated like a common criminal!
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#97673 - 05/11/08 10:48 AM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: RoseMT37]
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tropsicleAfter
Member
Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 2056
Loc: MS Gulf Coast
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Wouldn't it have been better to just take that similar shirt, with the intact price tag, to the register at the same time?
In every retail store I have ever had any association with, removing a price tag is considered to be evidence of intent to shoplift. I'm sorry your son had to go through all that, and glad that your son did not get formally charged, but his actions resembled the kind of theft that goes on every day in retail shops.
I'd say the system worked just the way it was supposed to.
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tropsicle
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#97680 - 05/11/08 01:56 PM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: RoseMT37]
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Agnostic
Member
Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 3078
Loc: Chennai, TN, India
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I agree with Trops. Removing the price tag wasn't a good thing to do. The price tag is supposed to be removed by the billing people. However, I am sorry that your son had to go through this.
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Harry
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A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going somewhere.
Groucho Marx
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#97684 - 05/11/08 03:00 PM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: tropsicleAfter]
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bobbcat
Member
Registered: 03/27/03
Posts: 5578
Loc: My office.
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his actions resembled the kind of theft that goes on every day in retail shops.
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Bottom line, it's either M-TEC or Andrews.
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#97703 - 05/11/08 10:17 PM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: bobbcat]
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RoseMT37
Member
Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 679
Loc: Texas
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Oh yea I agree, he should have taken a similar shirt to the register and told him as much. It just made me so mad the way it was handled, these shirts were on a rack right by the door. Did he tuck the shirt in his coat and head to the door? No he held it in his hand and went the opposite direction to the register...it was all just frustrating. It was kinda funny how afterwards when hubby was telling people at work about it there were several of them that were saying Oh my gosh Ive done that millions of times...but they dont any more lol. I dont know, I do understand the wrongness of it, and he does too...it just didnt seem very fair that they even said because they THOUGHT he was gonna steal it they could arrest him. I remember the time that you had to be seen putting something in your purse or even trying to get out the door with it, but no longer!
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#97704 - 05/11/08 11:37 PM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: RoseMT37]
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George Heymont
Member
Registered: 05/04/99
Posts: 4382
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Did anyone take into account that he was acting and thinking like a TEENAGER???
Let's hope they start arresting everyone on QVC.
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George Heymont
Alert & Oriented Medical Transcription Services
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#97707 - 05/12/08 04:48 AM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: George Heymont]
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whorn
Member
Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 496
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Of course they took that into account. They don't start waterboarding people who do that until they reach the age of 19...)))
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#97713 - 05/12/08 09:30 AM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: RoseMT37]
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Agnostic
Member
Registered: 06/28/03
Posts: 3078
Loc: Chennai, TN, India
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You should thank your stars that he was not labeled a terrorist.
"According to section 802 of the Patriot Act, minor criminal offenses can be interpreted as terrorism by government officials."
_________________________
Harry
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A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going somewhere.
Groucho Marx
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#97714 - 05/12/08 09:30 AM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: whorn]
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tropsicleAfter
Member
Registered: 10/30/06
Posts: 2056
Loc: MS Gulf Coast
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I'm unclear as to what point George is making. It cannot be that, as a teenager, his actions should be totally excused, because George is intelligent enough to realize that a very large bit of shoplifing is done by teenagers. In fact, in several states, removing a price tag, even in the absence of any other commonly recognized elements of shoplifting, is enough for conviction. Teens are often used by adult thieves simply because they are underage and it can be expected that their sentence, if caught, would be less.
The QVC comment really leaves me scratching my head and I would love to be enlightened on this.
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tropsicle
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#97715 - 05/12/08 09:33 AM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: RoseMT37]
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Glory1863
Member
Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 186
Loc: Beyond Antares
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Just one other quick thought, Rose. In some stores here, a 2X shirt that would fit the Michelin man costs more than the same style/same color shirt in XXS that would fit Twiggy. Putting the Twiggy price tag on the Michelin man shirt and then going to the register is still retail theft. Too bad the garment didn't have a barcode on the manufacturer's tag so your son could have taken it to the register for a price check, or perhaps Dillards doesn't do that. They're not in my area (although I've heard of them, and I believe they are downstate) so I can only go by what I can do at J C Penney.
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The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. Abraham Lincoln
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#97716 - 05/12/08 09:39 AM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: tropsicleAfter]
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14tonks
Member
Registered: 10/25/01
Posts: 5931
Loc: Only 3rd world country in US
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George's point was that teenagers who don't shoplift aren't necessarily aware of the techniques used by those who do, and, being teenagers, are apt not to do a full adult logical analysis of options before acting on the problem in front of them. His other mistake, of course, was wearing those $80 holey jeans and a raggedy T-shirt while tag tearing. Had he looked like a yuppie preppie, they probably would have stopped short of the trip to juvie with the strip search. If you're gonna insist on dressing like the gangsta rappers, don't be surprised if you're treated like one. (No, that's not fair; however, books get judged by their covers all the time because people don't have time to read them all before making decisions.)
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#97717 - 05/12/08 09:55 AM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: Agnostic]
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Glory1863
Member
Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 186
Loc: Beyond Antares
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I daresay that people living in certain neighborhoods of Chicago (or any large American city) might agree with that sign, but maybe that's the mentality of someone who has lived in a rural/suburban area all of her life. I cannot image living in constant fear of being robbed of even the smallest thing and being intimidated by the gangbangers day in and day out, not to mention being shot for no reason other than wanting to sit on your porch on a summer evening. There's plenty of stuff that goes on here daily that scares me more than the prospect of Osama taking out the Sears Tower, bad as that would be.
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The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. Abraham Lincoln
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#97736 - 05/12/08 01:03 PM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: Glory1863]
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George Heymont
Member
Registered: 05/04/99
Posts: 4382
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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I'm unclear as to what point George is making. It cannot be that, as a teenager, his actions should be totally excused, because George is intelligent enough to realize that a very large bit of shoplifing is done by teenagers. In fact, in several states, removing a price tag, even in the absence of any other commonly recognized elements of shoplifting, is enough for conviction. Teens are often used by adult thieves simply because they are underage and it can be expected that their sentence, if caught, would be less.
The QVC comment really leaves me scratching my head and I would love to be enlightened on this.
As a 'good" teenager, he thought he was doing the right thing by putting a price tag onto the shirt that he wanted because it didn't have one.
Keep in mind that last year a teenager showed up at my place to pick up a huge 70-pound 21-inch monitor that he was going to take home to a suburb in the East Bay. How was he planning to get it home? On his skateboard!
The reference to QVC was a joke.
_________________________
George Heymont
Alert & Oriented Medical Transcription Services
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#97758 - 05/12/08 06:50 PM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: RoseMT37]
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ahvasquez
Member
Registered: 02/07/03
Posts: 279
Loc: Texas
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My SIL went through a very similar situation, and he ended up being convicted of shoplifting, even though the intent to steal was never there, and he paid for the item in question along with the rest of their purchases. He was older than your son and should have known better, but that was one heck of a lesson! Never, ever take a price tag off another item--always take both items up to the register for price verification!!
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Anne
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#97771 - 05/12/08 10:33 PM
Re: The Thought Police
[Re: George Heymont]
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Glory1863
Member
Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 186
Loc: Beyond Antares
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George, I've been fighting this urge all shift, but I just can't do it anymore. So how did the teenager get that big monitor home?
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The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. Abraham Lincoln
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