MT Chat: Open source MT style guide and reference manual

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#88780 - 01/15/08 06:17 PM Open source MT style guide and reference manual
Julie W8 Julie W8 Member Registered: 01/10/99 Posts: 3475 Loc: Los Angeles, CA USA	MT Reference Style Guide wiki I have started the wiki project of an open source style guide. I believe as most of what's in the style guide is in the public domain, a very credible and reliable reference source can be built - one that's easier to use than a paper reference. The site configuration is still under construction, as is the content. If you'd like to pick a section to contribute, please contact me at juliew8 @ juliew8.com. All entries will be finalized by qualified editor(s), and then locked to editing. There will be a means for the community to comment and make suggestions. Article contributions are also welcome. _________________________ MT Exchange MT Registry
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#88787 - 01/15/08 07:10 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Julie W8]
Nae Nae Administrator Registered: 07/16/98 Posts: 6457 Loc: Sanford, Fl, USA	Well, golly, I bet Mike didn't expect anyone to take him quite so literally $\:\)$ I imagine more than just myself will be keeping an eye on how this one progresses $\:\)$ Thanks for letting us know. Nae Yes, yes, it was edited for the typo ... its has been a long day and bad arthritis makes a decided impact on my spelling ability (geez I wish I could get away with that excuse!) Edited by Nae (01/15/08 08:02 PM)
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#88794 - 01/15/08 07:48 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Nae]
Mike Mike Administrator Registered: 07/11/98 Posts: 2668	Originally Posted By: Nae Well, golly, I bet Mike didn't expect anyone to take him quite so literally $\:\)$ Actually, I was hoping someone would take the idea and run with it. (Jabberwocky mentioned the open source idea too. Tonks, Harrie, Mojeaux, and Cheryl Flanders and I have discussed it before too. So don't give me too much credit. :)) Julie, have you settled on what license and restrictions (if any) you'll be enacting? Can anyone copy, print, reprint, distribute, and use the final guide? If you have trouble getting people to volunteer you might think about soliciting help from schools and the staff of MT companies. An open, freely usable, freely distributable style guide could save them all a lot of money, so they might be willing to pay one or more of their employees to work on it for a few hours a week. Some companies may already have style guides in place and they may be willing to contribute entire sections of their guides to the project. MTs have needed something like this for a long time now, IMO. Great work!! Edited by Mike (01/15/08 07:56 PM) _________________________ Mike DeTuri Visit http://www.deturi.com for software and articles.
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#88797 - 01/15/08 08:30 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Mike]
Julie W8 Julie W8 Member Registered: 01/10/99 Posts: 3475 Loc: Los Angeles, CA USA	Thanks for the input, Mike. It occurred to me MTReference.com is a perfect domain name for putting something like this. I will slap up a footnote with the copyright information as soon as I can figure out how. (!!) Anyone can copy, reprint, distribute as long as they include information about where they got it; i.e., style.mtreference.com, and don't charge for reprinting/distributing it. I suppose there's a way to make that print on anything that gets downloaded/printed. I'm still working on how to make TikiWiki work. Like I said - volunteers accepted. I'm not crazy about how TikiWiki creates new entries - it does require an explanation - but I think most MTs are smart enough to figure it out. _________________________ MT Exchange MT Registry
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#88879 - 01/16/08 03:13 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Mike]
Mojeaux Mojeaux Member Registered: 09/21/03 Posts: 2115 Loc: Kansas City	Quote: If you have trouble getting people to volunteer you might think about soliciting help from schools and the staff of MT companies. An open, freely usable, freely distributable style guide could save them all a lot of money, so they might be willing to pay one or more of their employees to work on it for a few hours a week. This would assume that the open source style guide acquires some status as The Standard. IMO, the goal is to REPLACE the BOSx as The Standard in transcription style. I doubt that until it gains stature as a superior product that anybody's going to want to pay their people to contribute to an open-source product. Neal Stephenson, in Zodiac: Quote: Any property that's open to common use gets destroyed. Because everyone has incentive to use it to the max, but no one has incentive to maintain it. This is borne out in the dreadful lack of documentation for open-source ANYTHING. You must create incentive to maintain it. You do this two ways: You build credibility over time by building a good product, and you don't give it away. Giving things away, more often than not, destroys credibility. _________________________ ...like bubbles through a sieve...
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#88893 - 01/16/08 05:30 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Mojeaux]
14tonks 14tonks Member Registered: 10/25/01 Posts: 5931 Loc: Only 3rd world country in US	I agree that I doubt big companies will pay someone to work on an open source style guide, but for other reasons. Most of the large companies already have an in-house style guide of some kind of their own. The way the industry is going, they'd be more likely to just insist that any company that doesn't have one be refused some kind of accreditation, and that work all go to those "certified" companies who have legions of employees to write and maintain detailed proprietary style guides, multilevel QA, fancy transcription platforms, etc. The word "antitrust" really probably does have a place in this industry these days. As far as dreadful documentation for open-source ANYTHING, I'd probably extend that to say the documentation for digital anything tends to suck, open source or not. Geeks like to write code. They hate to write documentation. At least when it's free and open source, you know you are probably going have to assemble your own manual. What gets my goat is that you can pay big money for a program these days and get zilch in the way of decent documentation. Speaking for myself, I only own the BOS because I thought it would be a complete industry-specific style guide a la MLA, AP, etc. when I bought it. I mean for the price, that's what one would expect, right? I didn't believe what a disorganized incomplete hunk of junk it was when I got the shrink wrap off. However, since a lot of people do own it, and I'm both too lazy and too busy to spend the time to author a complete substitute for my very small business, it's been simpler to just tell subs to follow it except for this, that, and the other thing. However, if the digital version is disappearing, I need something else. The only way I've ever been able to find anything in that book to cite at a sub was by unlocking the PDF, running an Adobe catalog index on it with my Adobe Acrobat, and then using advanced search in that to pull the relevant statements. It's so utterly unusable in paper as to make it completely worthless to me. I'll be interested to see if this project goes anywhere. If someone puts a reasonable facsimile of an MT style guide online that is freely accessible and has a good digital search, I'd just as soon adopt that as the BOS. As for maintenance, if a community uses a wiki actively, it's fairly self-maintaining. If there's no interest, of course, then no one comments or adds, and it just fades away. We all know MT cats can't be herded. I have no idea, though, if they can be wikied.
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#88894 - 01/16/08 05:34 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: 14tonks]
Mojeaux Mojeaux Member Registered: 09/21/03 Posts: 2115 Loc: Kansas City	Well, I was going to quote you, Tonks, but that'd be a waste of time, so all I'll say is: Yeah. What you said. _________________________ ...like bubbles through a sieve...
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#88898 - 01/16/08 06:59 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Mojeaux]
Mike Mike Administrator Registered: 07/11/98 Posts: 2668	Originally Posted By: Mojeaux This would assume that the open source style guide acquires some status as The Standard. IMO, the goal is to REPLACE the BOSx as The Standard in transcription style. I doubt that until it gains stature as a superior product that anybody's going to want to pay their people to contribute to an open-source product. Maybe not. Then again, they might be willing to contribute the in-house documentation they have already. They might be willing to put some folks on it for bragging rights or free advertising. They might just wait and see where it goes, then quietly adopt it behind the scenes. They may just ignore it altogether forever. Existing companies usually treat open source projects in one of the above ways. Quote: Neal Stephenson, in Zodiac: Quote: Any property that's open to common use gets destroyed. Because everyone has incentive to use it to the max, but no one has incentive to maintain it. This is borne out in the dreadful lack of documentation for open-source ANYTHING. You must create incentive to maintain it. You do this two ways: You build credibility over time by building a good product, and you don't give it away. Giving things away, more often than not, destroys credibility. I'm not sure I'd say that open source projects are any less well documented than commercial ones. Firefox, Thunderbird, Fedora, SUSE, Ubuntu, and OpenOffice all have help files and online community documentation. Do you mean a lack of printed documentation? I can see instances where Stephenson may have a point. For example, I can see where that would apply to a gated community with no homeowners' association. But that's physical property. There are many instances where that doesn't apply at all, especially on the Internet. Consider the resources and sites maintained by hobbyists in their area of interest. They do it so they can have contact with others who have similar likes. Consider sites like MTChat that are supported by ad revenue. Television and radio are available for public consumption. What about Google? Everyone uses that. It's maintained by ads. Really, anything with possible ad revenue should be used to the max. That's how you keep the ads going. I guess I'm just not seeing why this project would be different than any other site, wiki, or forum on the Internet. _________________________ Mike DeTuri Visit http://www.deturi.com for software and articles.
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#88899 - 01/16/08 07:08 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Mike]
Mojeaux Mojeaux Member Registered: 09/21/03 Posts: 2115 Loc: Kansas City	Originally Posted By: Mike Consider sites like MTChat that are supported by ad revenue. Television and radio are available for public consumption. What about Google? Everyone uses that. It's maintained by ads. Really, anything with possible ad revenue should be used to the max. That's how you keep the ads going. What Stephenson means by maintained is kept up, changed, adapted, worked on. For instance, I use Keynote, which is a fabulous project, but which its creator abandoned. Terrible thing, really. I'd have paid for it, it's so good. I understand there are exceptions to every rule, but you have to have a very large community of interest to maintain the software (e.g., Firefox) as it needs to be maintained. Otherwise, yes, lack of printed documentation. That's part of the maintenance of software and, of course, Tonks has an excellent point in that documentation of pay-software isn't much better. What I'm talking about (what Stephenson referred to) is open-source software that's useful but has few developers and a lot of users. This is more common than not. I do firmly believe that the goal should be to replace the BOSx; otherwise, I see no point. It won't generate revenue if it's not and the problem of the BOSx will still exist. There will be no leverage and no credibility unless it becomes The Standard. _________________________ ...like bubbles through a sieve...
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#88902 - 01/16/08 07:25 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Mojeaux]
14tonks 14tonks Member Registered: 10/25/01 Posts: 5931 Loc: Only 3rd world country in US	Quote: What I'm talking about (what Stephenson referred to) is open-source software that's useful but has few developers and a lot of users. This is more common than not. Well, of course. The world has many more computer users than programmers. All I've ever been able to contribute to any open source software is suggestions for features--I don't know how to program. The fact there are many users for a piece of software does tend to make it more attractive to work on for those who donate programming to open source projects, but in the end there is never as much programming talent as there is potential work to do on all the software projects that have been started up.
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#88908 - 01/16/08 08:43 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Mike]
Julie W8 Julie W8 Member Registered: 01/10/99 Posts: 3475 Loc: Los Angeles, CA USA	Even if MTs don't contribute to the open source style guide, I'm committed to creating and maintaining it. However, I am opposed to anyone being given any financial consideration or trade in exchange for contributions, primarily because I consider it a slap in the face to anyone who contributes without any compensation - or expectation of compensation. _________________________ MT Exchange MT Registry
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#89540 - 01/23/08 05:32 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Julie W8]
Nae Nae Administrator Registered: 07/16/98 Posts: 6457 Loc: Sanford, Fl, USA	Bumping this up for somebody who was having trouble finding it $\:\)$ Nae
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#89804 - 01/27/08 08:40 AM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Nae]
Nae Nae Administrator Registered: 07/16/98 Posts: 6457 Loc: Sanford, Fl, USA	Bumping this up to make it easier to find. Nae
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#89814 - 01/27/08 12:55 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Nae]
RaeMorrill RaeMorrill Member Registered: 07/26/06 Posts: 672 Loc: Maine	Kudos to those who thought of it and to Julie for committing to make it real! _________________________ Rae Morrill in Maine
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#89977 - 01/30/08 11:18 AM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Julie W8]
Agnostic Agnostic Member Registered: 06/28/03 Posts: 3078 Loc: Chennai, TN, India	I just registered. $\:\)$ Great idea, Julie. _________________________ Harry ----- A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going somewhere. Groucho Marx
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#90371 - 02/05/08 04:59 AM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Agnostic]
AmBeck22 AmBeck22 Member Registered: 11/02/06 Posts: 313 Loc: WV	Wow, very nice! I would love to contribute to this! _________________________ Amanda $\:\)$
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#90431 - 02/05/08 07:25 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: AmBeck22]
Julie W8 Julie W8 Member Registered: 01/10/99 Posts: 3475 Loc: Los Angeles, CA USA	Harry has contributed some samples and I would, of course, love to have more. I think samples are really helpful to everyone not only for terminology but for style. If you contribute samples, please go look at the current one that's now up (thanks, Harry!). Electrophysiology study sample What I'm finding is that it's going to be impossible to have multiple authors doing the initial entry. I'm having to use 5 books and multiple web sites as reference. I would appreciate help in the following ways: 1. Samples (as noted above) 2. Comments. In the completed entries, you can leave comments. What's missing? What's wrong? What needs to be added? Do you have a question about the entry? Is there a typo? 3. Please feel free to use the internal messaging system to send me a message and let me know if there's something you'd like to see added, something different, etc. (To leave a message, you need to be logged in, then just find any link to admin - there's one on every entry, at the bottom - and click it. You'll see the message box.) _________________________ MT Exchange MT Registry
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#90441 - 02/05/08 11:37 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Julie W8]
Agnostic Agnostic Member Registered: 06/28/03 Posts: 3078 Loc: Chennai, TN, India	I had a look right now and will do as you have asked. _________________________ Harry ----- A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going somewhere. Groucho Marx
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#93630 - 03/18/08 07:45 PM Re: Open source MT style guide and reference manua [Re: Agnostic]
Julie W8 Julie W8 Member Registered: 01/10/99 Posts: 3475 Loc: Los Angeles, CA USA	I know this topic is pinned so I'm just doing an update, not bumping up. There have been updates. If you have registered, when you log in again you will see a box that "last wiki comments." Click on this and it will list all the pages that have been added/updated since your last login. You do not have to be registered to subscribe to the RSS feed, which will also notify you of updates. If you don't know what RSS feeds are or how to subscribe to them, I suggest you just register for the site. And just a reminder - registered users can leave comments. If you wish to leave a comment about an entry, just click on the "add comment" button. Sounds intuitive enough, doesn't it? $\:\)$ Most of you know where to find me. You can also leave a message in the wiki messaging system. Please don't tell me I have to do a video on how to use the site! _________________________ MT Exchange MT Registry
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